This was a particularly good essay of yours. One thing that strikes me is that not only are we valuing women over men, we STILL seem to devalue the fields they used to dominate (teaching, nursing, caretaking, etc.)
It’s almost as if men are being devalued while simultaneously devaluing women who aren’t enough like men.
the decline of male-only or male-oriented groups explicitly is something i'm now concerned about, especially with young men. i'm not talking about men's rights or whatever. i don't even care about women in this context, men need to stand up, and just take leadership instead of cowering. until we figure that out our culture will be out of balance. we're starting to become like the inverse of saudi arabia in some sectors IMO
I really love how well adjusted and thoughtful everyone is being in this comment section. Everyone is being so kind and persuasive and not at all weird.
I have two white sons and this is my fear for them. In trying to level the playing field for everyone else they’ve thrown sons like mine off a cliff. It’s intentional and backed by bad statistics like the wage gap. I’m a woman in a STEM field. I’m not underpaid as compared to my male peers. Freakanomics did a podcast episode years ago about a wage gap study that Uber did and it was pretty interesting. It debunked that $0.75 for every $1 myth as well as showed that men pick risker and therefore more lucrative routes (early mornings, late nights and they drive faster) and that any wage gap (at the time something like $0.97 for every $1) was not due to discrimination but choices.
Taking things away from men intentionally to prop up women isn’t feminism, it’s revenge.
Refreshingly insightful article on gendered financial inequality. Your points about men being more likely to be given loans and investments due to their perceived financial stability and men being given gifts to demonstrate their value or worth are clear examples of how societal expectations and biases can lead to unequal treatment and opportunities for men and women.
It’s really interesting how the ways in which this gendered financial inequality can have long-term consequences on individuals and their financial stability. It's not just about receiving a one-time gift or loan, but rather the accumulated financial support and opportunities that can lead to greater financial success.
Your bringing attention to this important issue is appreciated, and I hope more will recognize and address these inequalities to foster a more equal opportunity and a more fair society for all.
Good read. I have always been very intrigued in how far the pendulum of "Corrective Action" swings. For centuries, women were barred from going into certain fields, especially STEM. Now it seems that the corrective action isn't just to facilitate our entrance into the field, but it's beginning to feel more and more forced. More about signaling than actually caring. Thanks for pointing that out. If only people can see that.
Hi, I enjoy your writing and think this essay raises good points.
I wonder if the higher variance in male IQs explains some of the academic discrepancy between men and women. Males seem to have a higher proportion of individuals at both tails of the bell curve.
Also, men tend to do poorer in coursework but better on high-stakes test such as the SAT, which may be due to personality traits. On average, boys outscore girls on the SAT but are clobbered on the achievement-oriented GCSEs.
I appreciate this article and learned a lot from the comments, as well. I didn’t think about the wage gap being a flawed argument until I read a commenter share about how men tend to work more OT hours, leading to naturally higher annual wages. However, what’s missing from this point is something I’ve personally experienced and cannot walk away from this thread without mentioning -- and that’s the issue of career interruptions for women. More woman are impacted by career interruptions, which leads to lower earning potential overtime. Whether they take breaks from their career for childcare responsibilities or elderly parental care, women take on the brunt of this work in a society where universal healthcare or elder-care isn’t available. I’ve personally had to take off over a year from work between my two kids and have been told point-blank during hiring processes that my earning potential is based off of “traditional years in the workforce.” The years I’ve taken off to take care for my kids -- even tho I was writing, volunteering, building, oh and raising human beings -- means nothing for my earning potential and I’ve suffered because of it.
I haven't read the book but I did raise the following point to the author: why should men attend college in the same numbers as women as they have numerous career paths to the middle class that don't require a college diploma? On the flip side, women have few options - unless they want to work in male dominated fields - so a college diploma is almost a necessity to find a middle class position.
Why would someone invest 4+ years of time and accumulate debt, if they only needed at best an associate's degree?
Yes, men weren't always in the minority in colleges. But, far fewer people attend college too a generation or two ago.
Hi Sarah, just here for a request: could you suggest a link, a book, an article that you consider to have the best arguments against the myth of the wage gap, please? I need to understand more on this issue, thank you.
I banned her. Sorry guys—I thought I would open comments to everyone, obviously that was a mistake.
Perfect illustration of some of points above though, wasn’t it. :)
This was a particularly good essay of yours. One thing that strikes me is that not only are we valuing women over men, we STILL seem to devalue the fields they used to dominate (teaching, nursing, caretaking, etc.)
It’s almost as if men are being devalued while simultaneously devaluing women who aren’t enough like men.
the decline of male-only or male-oriented groups explicitly is something i'm now concerned about, especially with young men. i'm not talking about men's rights or whatever. i don't even care about women in this context, men need to stand up, and just take leadership instead of cowering. until we figure that out our culture will be out of balance. we're starting to become like the inverse of saudi arabia in some sectors IMO
Interesting essay. Raising a boy, it is concerning to see these trends. I hope more research and attention is given to the subject.
Great article - counter-narrative and insightful. Thank you!
I really love how well adjusted and thoughtful everyone is being in this comment section. Everyone is being so kind and persuasive and not at all weird.
It's kind of sad that the same people who complain about "misinformation" also believe the wage gap is a real thing.
I have two white sons and this is my fear for them. In trying to level the playing field for everyone else they’ve thrown sons like mine off a cliff. It’s intentional and backed by bad statistics like the wage gap. I’m a woman in a STEM field. I’m not underpaid as compared to my male peers. Freakanomics did a podcast episode years ago about a wage gap study that Uber did and it was pretty interesting. It debunked that $0.75 for every $1 myth as well as showed that men pick risker and therefore more lucrative routes (early mornings, late nights and they drive faster) and that any wage gap (at the time something like $0.97 for every $1) was not due to discrimination but choices.
Taking things away from men intentionally to prop up women isn’t feminism, it’s revenge.
Refreshingly insightful article on gendered financial inequality. Your points about men being more likely to be given loans and investments due to their perceived financial stability and men being given gifts to demonstrate their value or worth are clear examples of how societal expectations and biases can lead to unequal treatment and opportunities for men and women.
It’s really interesting how the ways in which this gendered financial inequality can have long-term consequences on individuals and their financial stability. It's not just about receiving a one-time gift or loan, but rather the accumulated financial support and opportunities that can lead to greater financial success.
Your bringing attention to this important issue is appreciated, and I hope more will recognize and address these inequalities to foster a more equal opportunity and a more fair society for all.
A related tangent: it is commonplace these days to see a list of finalists for annual book awards, or of "year's best" books, dominated by women, often nonwhite, together with some nonwhite men; see for example the National Book Award finalists at https://www.vox.com/culture/23437466/national-book-award-2022-winners-finalists-list, the NY Times list of ten best of 2022, https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/29/books/best-books-2022.html, or its recommended of 2022, https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/08/books/review/2022-reading-picks-from-times-staff-critics.html. And there are a variety of prizes for books by women, and none, I think, for books by men (only). It could well be the case that men, especially white men, don't write so many prize-worthy books these days, or that it's time to spotlight other voices, for some indefinite period. But it's a curious situation. Similar comments apply to music as well.
Good read. I have always been very intrigued in how far the pendulum of "Corrective Action" swings. For centuries, women were barred from going into certain fields, especially STEM. Now it seems that the corrective action isn't just to facilitate our entrance into the field, but it's beginning to feel more and more forced. More about signaling than actually caring. Thanks for pointing that out. If only people can see that.
Does our culture *hate* men? Our culture is certainly allowed to *signal* they hate men but maybe there's no difference in that distinction?
Hi, I enjoy your writing and think this essay raises good points.
I wonder if the higher variance in male IQs explains some of the academic discrepancy between men and women. Males seem to have a higher proportion of individuals at both tails of the bell curve.
Also, men tend to do poorer in coursework but better on high-stakes test such as the SAT, which may be due to personality traits. On average, boys outscore girls on the SAT but are clobbered on the achievement-oriented GCSEs.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886906000420?via%3Dihub
https://19thnews.org/2022/03/colleges-admissions-dropping-sat-exam-gender-gap/
https://www.statista.com/statistics/282484/gcse-pass-rate-in-uk-by-gender/
I appreciate this article and learned a lot from the comments, as well. I didn’t think about the wage gap being a flawed argument until I read a commenter share about how men tend to work more OT hours, leading to naturally higher annual wages. However, what’s missing from this point is something I’ve personally experienced and cannot walk away from this thread without mentioning -- and that’s the issue of career interruptions for women. More woman are impacted by career interruptions, which leads to lower earning potential overtime. Whether they take breaks from their career for childcare responsibilities or elderly parental care, women take on the brunt of this work in a society where universal healthcare or elder-care isn’t available. I’ve personally had to take off over a year from work between my two kids and have been told point-blank during hiring processes that my earning potential is based off of “traditional years in the workforce.” The years I’ve taken off to take care for my kids -- even tho I was writing, volunteering, building, oh and raising human beings -- means nothing for my earning potential and I’ve suffered because of it.
I haven't read the book but I did raise the following point to the author: why should men attend college in the same numbers as women as they have numerous career paths to the middle class that don't require a college diploma? On the flip side, women have few options - unless they want to work in male dominated fields - so a college diploma is almost a necessity to find a middle class position.
Why would someone invest 4+ years of time and accumulate debt, if they only needed at best an associate's degree?
Yes, men weren't always in the minority in colleges. But, far fewer people attend college too a generation or two ago.
Hi Sarah, just here for a request: could you suggest a link, a book, an article that you consider to have the best arguments against the myth of the wage gap, please? I need to understand more on this issue, thank you.
Really enjoyed this essay.